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Old 04-05-2007   #1
Wicked
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Netherlands - Breda
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Arrow In progress project 3D Female

After I made my first 3d character (human - monster) I want to try something different: a damn good looking hot female with really cool looking armor on it!
I don't want to make a kind face but something bit evil in it.

I used a front and side view female picter from internnet for the antomy.

I only worked on the lips/mouth and the eyes, I know I have a wrong looking thingy right under the eye, still need to fix that.
I hope with those 3 picters I could get some good critics: wich edges I should remove or wich I did good and should keep doing that for next 3d characters.

I have a question aswel about the distance from the nose eyes and the lips, are they ok?




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Old 04-05-2007   #2
Mitko
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Well there are alot of tutorials and alot of them are free.So why don't you check them out ?
Also get yourself a good anatomy book because that face has nothing to do with anatomy
I think that you have a complete mess with the edge loops
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Old 04-05-2007   #3
Wicked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitko View Post
Well there are alot of tutorials and alot of them are free.So why don't you check them out ?
Also get yourself a good anatomy book because that face has nothing to do with anatomy
I think that you have a complete mess with the edge loops
Hey,
I know there are many tutorials..I did allot of them, but the thing is I want to make my own character and not from a tutorial.
Could you be more specific about face has nothing to do with anatomy?
I know some edges aren't good, I saw that myself already, but the problem is wich 1 I have to delete and wich I have to fix?

Ty
Wicked.

Last edited by Wicked; 04-05-2007 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 04-05-2007   #4
Rasclatt
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Default Female face

Hey, dood. Good start. I would say a couple things:

Make your eye lids wrap around the eye so the eye doesn't look like it's in a hole:
I would select the eye ball, duplicate, make that ball slightly bigger (like the thickness of the skin on an eye lid) and make it live (press the magnet button on the top menu). Then from the front view, move your eye lid points (outter most rim) sort of around and back to original spot. That will snap the point to the surface of the eye ball dup. U have to activate the snap by moving the point first. If you do this for the outline of the eye, your eye lid will form to the shape of the eye. Then you turn the ball back to normal by deselecting everything and pressing the magnet button again. Delete that dup ball. Then go and fix the points around the eye socket so they smooth out a bit. if your socket looks wierd, then that means your eye ball is either too big or too small from the beginning.

Weird surface continuity
Your eye and mouth area are too dense with poly/triangles for just a base build. You will get a bumpy effect if you have too many triangles/quads concentrated in the area. Your eye socket and brow are made mostly of tri. The basic shape of your eye area should looke like a spider web....sort of. You have that shape, but you have split a lot of quads into tri. I couldn't show you unless I had your file to delete the incorrect edges. You definitely need to convert a lot of that area to quads, then reduce your poly count in those two areas.

Lips
You should make the lips a little more full. They are a little thin looking.

Other than these things, it's a good start!

Cheers
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Old 04-05-2007   #5
Wicked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasclatt View Post
Hey, dood. Good start. I would say a couple things:

Make your eye lids wrap around the eye so the eye doesn't look like it's in a hole:
I would select the eye ball, duplicate, make that ball slightly bigger (like the thickness of the skin on an eye lid) and make it live (press the magnet button on the top menu). Then from the front view, move your eye lid points (outter most rim) sort of around and back to original spot. That will snap the point to the surface of the eye ball dup. U have to activate the snap by moving the point first. If you do this for the outline of the eye, your eye lid will form to the shape of the eye. Then you turn the ball back to normal by deselecting everything and pressing the magnet button again. Delete that dup ball. Then go and fix the points around the eye socket so they smooth out a bit. if your socket looks wierd, then that means your eye ball is either too big or too small from the beginning.

Weird surface continuity
Your eye and mouth area are too dense with poly/triangles for just a base build. You will get a bumpy effect if you have too many triangles/quads concentrated in the area. Your eye socket and brow are made mostly of tri. The basic shape of your eye area should looke like a spider web....sort of. You have that shape, but you have split a lot of quads into tri. I couldn't show you unless I had your file to delete the incorrect edges. You definitely need to convert a lot of that area to quads, then reduce your poly count in those two areas.

Lips
You should make the lips a little more full. They are a little thin looking.

Other than these things, it's a good start!

Cheers

Hello Rasclatt,
I really appricaite your reply with critics, I got your point of view, I'm already buzy to fix those points and edges around the eye and the lips.
Working on maya learnding edition (home) if I'm back at school I will reply and put a new version of her face.

Many thanks
Wicked.
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Old 04-05-2007   #6
Andrew Bina
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When I first started out modeling I made similar mistakes to the ones you are making. I understand where you are coming from with the wanting to teach yourself thing. That is really hard but some of us actually learn more through trial and error.

The edge loop thing:
When you have weird edge loops around areas that bend like the eyes and mouth things tend to pinch, especially when they are to be animated. It can get really messy. I suggest looking at other modelers wireframes to see how they do it or you can always buy one of the many awesome Gnomon DVDs. For modeling I really liked "Head Modeling for Games" and "Modeling the Human Head". They are not so much step by step tutorials as they are guidelines for modeling.

The main problem:
I think you have too much geometry and not enough form to support it. I made this mistake as well. You should try starting with less geometry and try to get the most shape you can. This way simple mistakes are easy to fix and details are very easy to add on. It is the initial form you should be concerned with. Keep it simple.

As for the aesthetic. I would raise the lips up closer to the bottom of the nose, give her a brow ridge so that you can make her look angry or mean using her eyebrow
positioning, and finally I would definitely give her some nice cheek bones. Oh, and ears she is going to need some ears. Good first attempt. I'm sure if you take the time she will look awesome.
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Old 04-05-2007   #7
Wicked
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Bina View Post
When I first started out modeling I made similar mistakes to the ones you are making. I understand where you are coming from with the wanting to teach yourself thing. That is really hard but some of us actually learn more through trial and error.

The edge loop thing:
When you have weird edge loops around areas that bend like the eyes and mouth things tend to pinch, especially when they are to be animated. It can get really messy. I suggest looking at other modelers wireframes to see how they do it or you can always buy one of the many awesome Gnomon DVDs. For modeling I really liked "Head Modeling for Games" and "Modeling the Human Head". They are not so much step by step tutorials as they are guidelines for modeling.

The main problem:
I think you have too much geometry and not enough form to support it. I made this mistake as well. You should try starting with less geometry and try to get the most shape you can. This way simple mistakes are easy to fix and details are very easy to add on. It is the initial form you should be concerned with. Keep it simple.

As for the aesthetic. I would raise the lips up closer to the bottom of the nose, give her a brow ridge so that you can make her look angry or mean using her eyebrow
positioning, and finally I would definitely give her some nice cheek bones. Oh, and ears she is going to need some ears. Good first attempt. I'm sure if you take the time she will look awesome.

I'm thinking about to buy 1 of those great dvd's, but I want to learn a bit more by myself, I think those dvd's are cool when you know the basic ++ very well.
But thats just my though about it...

I just looked about putting those lips closer to the bottom of the nose, its looks indeed much better(will do that a other time).
Ears Hahah yea the ears will come, it won't be a female without ears!

I worked at home after I readed those critics, I did some little change on some edges, I removed allot unuseful edges, makes the lips a bit bigger, the eyes I "try" to fix it like Rasclatt told me, I hope it goes to the good direction.

And ty again for those great reply's of you all !

so here are 3 little updates:



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Old 04-05-2007   #8
Mitko
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Hi Wicked
I think it's not a matter of what you can keep and what to dump, but a matter of will these loops be able to represent the surface you want to represent.
You have alot of thriangles in the mesh.





I don't know how to help you : )
If you think that you can represent these surfaces with the loops you have then keep me all
If not, just go and review these tutorials and note how they build loops that can support the surfaces you'r building.

From what i can see is that you tend to use thriangles where surfaces must be smooth and a thriangle will not give you such a look.
You have like these edge loops that run through quad faces which are great for representing the smooth surface there and these loops just destroy this posibility.
I think you can work on ending the edge loops in a better way, like again watch some tutotrials about ending loops.
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Old 04-05-2007   #9
Wicked
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Hey Mitko !
Looks like you posted same time when I posted my new update
I rly appriciate you spended time for showing me those stupid thriangles edges and unuseful edges, its really helpfull.
I will try to don't repeat that mystake again. I learned about making edges to make other edges but I have to remove them aswel something I din't dit often as you saw

--
I think it's not a matter of what you can keep and what to dump, but a matter of will these loops be able to represent the surface you want to represent.
--
both things are importand, unuseful edges can only be negative. anyway its true what you sayed

Gnight,
Wicked.

Last edited by Wicked; 04-05-2007 at 14:33 PM.
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Old 04-05-2007   #10
Mitko
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Yea the new ones look much better good job !
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